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I suspect they are attacking me not because of
what I said which is cops are trigger happy thugs
who shot first and ask questions later, which is true,
but because David Dorn has been spreading lies that
I am a government snitch.
It looks like on Saturday, December 18 10:25 AM
I posted this message to the Arizona RKBA listserver.
The article in the message is from the Arizona Republic
and seems to say that when cops see people with guns,
or even toy guns they shoot first and think last.
The article doesn't say one single word about anybody
pointing a gun at a police officer,
pointing a gun at anyone else, nor
does the article say that a police officer
or anyone else was threatened with a gun.
The first sentence says:
calls related to suspicious people walking and running through neighborhoods, parks and desert-wash areas with assault rifles in hand.
The article does say that there are calls about
suspicious people with guns, but it doesn't say
one word about these suspicious people with guns
threatening anyone with their guns.
The next line of the article scares me.
It says:
"But our officers see what looks like a real rifle or shotgun or pistol.
It's a situation that is very dangerous and could result in a tragedy."
That statement seems to say that anytime a Phoenix Police officer
sees a gun they assume it is a threat to them and that they
may shoot and kill the person with the gun.
Of course in Arizona it is not legal for the police
to shoot and kill a person simply because they have a gun.
Another sentence in the article says
a 16-year-old Phoenix boy with an airsoft gun was shot
by police who assumed he was carrying a real weapon.
I remember that incident.
The cops shot the kid simply because they assumed he had a real gun,
which was wrong.
This article seems to say that too.
It doesn't mention why the cops shot the kid,
other then because the kid had a pellet gun
the cops thought was real.
In the same paragraph Sgt. Steve Martos says
young people playing with airsoft guns "can put our officers in an impossible situation."
Again that quote scares the krap out of me.
It sounds like the Phoenix cops will shoot anybody
they see with a gun!
Note Sgt. Steve Martos didn't say anything about
kids pointing guns at cops, he simply said kids
playing with airsoft guns "can put our officers in an impossible situation."
That statement leads me to think the cops
are trigger happy when ever they are around
anyone with guns.
Here is my post
Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
Saturday, December 18, 2010 10:25 AM
From: "x" *************@YAHOO.COM
To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
I guess this means cops assume any civilian with a gun is a criminal. And of course that our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms is null and void!
Source
Airsoft guns may lead to tragedy when mistaken for real weapons
by William Hermann - Dec. 18, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
Phoenix police in recent months have responded to an increased number of calls related to suspicious people walking and running through neighborhoods, parks and desert-wash areas with assault rifles in hand.
"These guns are turning out to be airsoft guns,
which are much like BB guns used to be,
and shoot a plastic pellet,"
police spokesman Sgt. Steve Martos said.
"But our officers see what looks like a real rifle or shotgun or pistol.
It's a situation that is very dangerous and could result in a tragedy."
It already very nearly has.
About two years ago, a 16-year-old Phoenix boy with an airsoft gun was shot by police who assumed he was carrying a real weapon. The boy survived, but Martos says young people playing with airsoft guns "can put our officers in an impossible situation."
Phoenix City Councilwoman Thelda Williams said she is working with police to designate desert areas where airsoft enthusiasts can safely play.
"I have grandsons who do that (airsoft) thing, and I'm afraid for them and everyone involved," she said. "We're working with the parks department so we can designate some washes, maybe have then marked with cones, so we have safe places."
John Pehrson, who sells about 100 airsoft weapons a month at The Command Post, a Phoenix store catering to paintball and airsoft enthusiasts, said "extreme realism is a part of the attraction" of the guns.
He said all airsoft guns come with a red tip that is supposed to show they are not real weapons.
"I tell my customers they should leave the red tips on, but I can't make them do it and they often take them off," Pehrson said. "And I advise them to go to a paintball or airsoft arena, of which there are several."
"But you can't always make people do the safe thing," Pehrson said.
Tim Weaver responded to my post with this
very insulting post that follows.
Tim Weaver seams to be saying that these
kids with the air guns in the initial article
where some how attacking, pointing their air guns at the cops,
or threatening the lives of the cops.
Of course that is false.
But I don't think Tim Weaver is concerned with the facts
he probably getting his jollies from attacking and insulting me.
My one question to Tim Weaver is
Tim Weavers insulting post follows
Re: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
Saturday, December 18, 2010 11:12 AM
From: "Tim Weaver" weavermt@YAHOO.COM
To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
When does the 2nd Amendment cover pointing a gun at someone absent a deadly threat?
Point a gun at a cop...ANY gun...and expect to get shot.
Sometimes your posts border on the asinine. No wait...not just sometimes.
--- On Sat, 12/18/10, x **************@YAHOO.COM wrote:
> From: x ***************@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
> To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 10:25 AM
> Trigger happy cops shot first, ask
> questions second?
>
> I guess this means cops assume any civilian with a
> gun is a criminal. And of course that our 2nd Amendment
> right to keep and bear arms is null and void!
>
Next along comes John Wentling and he makes
an angry post similar to Tim Weavers but not
quite as insulting.
John Wentling says that if you point a gun at him he will kill you.
Again I don't have a problem with that.
It is his right to kill you if you threaten him with a gun.
But like Tim Weaver, John Wentling didn't read the article
and doesn't seem to understand that nobody in the article
pointed a gun or threatened a cop.
The people in the article simply had air guns and the cops
seem to be afraid of anybody with guns.
John Wentling post follows.
Re: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
Saturday, December 18, 2010 11:29 AM
From: "John Wentling" joniola@COX.NET
To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
Same goes for civilians - point a gun at me - ANY gun - and expect to
get shot.
There are natural, constitutional limits on the USE of arms, first among
them is when that use imposes on another person's right to life,
liberty, happiness and property.
I'd say pointing a weapon at someone qualifies.
John
> When does the 2nd Amendment cover pointing a
> gun at someone absent a deadly threat?
>
> Point a gun at a cop...ANY gun...and expect to get shot.
>
> Sometimes your posts border on the asinine.
> No wait...not just sometimes..
>
>
> --- On Sat, 12/18/10, x *********@YAHOO.COM wrote:
>
>> From: x **************@YAHOO.COM
>> Subject: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
>> To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
>> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 10:25 AM
>> Trigger happy cops shot first, ask
>> questions second?
>>
>> I guess this means cops assume any civilian with a
>> gun is a criminal. And of course that our 2nd Amendment
>> right to keep and bear arms is null and void!
Last but not least CD comes along and defends my post.
Thanks CD.
CD correctly points out that NOBODY in the article
did anything to threaten the cops.
Here is the letter posted by CD
Re: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
Saturday, December 18, 2010 12:30 PM
From: "C. D. Tavares" ******@LIBERTYHAVEN.COM
To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
Sounds like you guys obediently read what the journalist wanted you to read
... but not what he wrote:
> suspicious people walking and running
> through neighborhoods, parks and desert-wash
> areas with assault rifles in hand.
> a 16-year-old Phoenix boy with an airsoft
> gun was shot by police who assumed he was
> carrying a real weapon.
Now, where in all this did anyone point anything at a police officer -- or anyone else?
Don't you guys remember the ROTC kid who wanted to practice hiking up
some mountain trail in the east valley with an airsoft guns that never left his back,
and what the cops did to him?
On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:29 AM, John Wentling wrote:
> Same goes for civilians - point a gun at me - ANY gun - and expect to get shot.
>
> There are natural, constitutional limits on the USE of arms,
> first among them is when that use imposes on another person's
> right to life, liberty, happiness and property.
>
> I'd say pointing a weapon at someone qualifies.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>> When does the 2nd Amendment cover pointing a gun at someone absent a deadly threat?
>>
>> Point a gun at a cop...ANY gun...and expect to get shot.
>>
>> Sometimes your posts border on the asinine. No wait...not just sometimes..
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 12/18/10, x **********@YAHOO.COM wrote:
>>
>>> From: x ************@YAHOO.COM
>>> Subject: Trigger happy cops shot first, ask questions second?
>>> To: AZRKBA@ASU.EDU
>>> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 10:25 AM
>>> Trigger happy cops shot first, ask
>>> questions second?
>>>
>>> I guess this means cops assume any civilian with a
>>> gun is a criminal. And of course that our 2nd Amendment
>>> right to keep and bear arms is null and void!
--
Escape the Rat Race for Peace,
Quiet, and Miles of Desert Beauty
Take a Sanity Break at The Bunkhouse
at Liberty Haven Ranch
http://libertyhaven.com
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